The Future of 5e

[berk the black]

Is it just me, or do things seem to be slowing down in the PPM market? Sure, Tariffs, Supply Chain issues and more are taking their toll. And the jump to D&D 2024 coupled with the scandals of the last few years seems to have made an impact on the entire gaining community, fracturing the stronghold that D&D once had.

GenCon registration was yesterday, and one thing I noticed is that there were still a lot of D&D events in the 2014 format instead of 2024. There were also more 3.5 games available to choose from than for last year. That part worked in my favor.

None of this is empirical data, just my casual observations. And, it could be that all this is due to economic changes, where people have less discretionary cash for gaming in general. Or it could simply be me projecting my disinterest in the last version changes to a broader scale.

[BBShockwave]

Well, we do know of 2 more D&D sets this year, and 1 PFB. Plus the Wrath of the Wild repurposed boxsets.
But yeah, there is less special stuff now - Critical Role is over (I think they will be doing their own minis now?), so is Wardlings, even Warlock Tiles has only like 1 item on the list.
I think there are planned D&D sets still for the year, but since WotC is also being pretty hush about their plans, Wizkids cannot mention those. We do know a Faerun themed campaign setting book is coming, with stats for Drow and other Forgotten Realms staple creatures, so I suspect the Q4 set will be that. I doubt the Dragon adventure, with its quite varied art style, will have a set attached, especially so soon after Return of the Dragons.

[BBShockwave]

So, this is interesting...
https://www.enworld.org/threads/d-ds-th ... st.713498/

DK is releasing a Book of Dragons in August. Has some very nice art and is a licensed product. But, and this is the interesting part for us, it uses the new 2025 Monster Manual art for Chromatic and Metallic Dragons, but still has the Fizban's art for Gem Dragons! So hopefully, that means we can still get those in mini form down the line with the same look.

[BBShockwave]

More art here... odd stuff, the Red Dragon art is clearly 2025 MM style, and then we have a profile on Inferno using 2014 MM style...
https://www.dk.com/us/book/978059396931 ... f-dragons/

Also, there is art of the Amethyst Dragon and it looks somewhat different from the Fizban look. I do kinda like the flating big crystal "mane" collar they have now. Kinda like a Frilled Lizard except it is rings of crystals. They also still have the big mace-like tail like in Fizban's.

And man, that opening page showing Dragon heads and necks reminds me how stupidly thick the new art makes their necks compared to their heads. Like they are Moray Eels.

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[Kikoli]

Basically my understanding is that they are using the 2024 designs as the main feature for the dragons, but anything they need to use older art for, say art of a particular dragon if art exists or new art isn't commissioned for them will be the older art already used. IE: They might use the full art of my avatar for say art of Claugiyliamatar if they don't want to make new art of her in the 2024 style.

I like the concept of exploring more famous dragons and having the book written by Tiamat and Bahamut, but the mix-match of art is gonna be a little jarring.

[BBShockwave]

So, still reading through the 2025 Monster Manual, and here are some observation of the good and the bad:

- I guess to make them more like Elementals, Genies are all Neutral now. Well, except Marids, they stayed Chaotic Neutral. This really changes not just inner-planar politics but a lot of the lore too, if Efreeti are not cruel but thrustworthy, and Dao are not exploitative traders and slavers. And yes that means Djinn aren't a force of Good, either. Nor is there any mention of enmity between Genies of different planes.
- I like that now every extraplanar creature has a trait that basically means they cannot be killed away from their own plane - aka when they die, they reappear on their own home plane (usually at full HP). Sure, this used to be a lot more diverse in 2E-3E, where Devils would go back to Lemure status and their underlings would run back and find them so they can quick-promote them, or where Demons would be barred from coming back to said plane for 100 years or so... But it is better than 2014 5E where this was not even mentioned, I think. And yeah this now stands true to most extraplanar creatures including Angels, Genies etc. Not Mephits, Elementals or Magmins though.
- In a move I support very much, they removed all of that "Liches need to feed souls to their phylacteries to survive" nonsense. I argued back in 2014 too that made Liches just as dependent on Human(oid) lives for sustenance as Vampires and is against the whole idea of detached cold immortality they represent. Now, this is back to normal, they don't need to feed on souls, and they can still become Demiliches if they lose interest in wordly matters. Oh and similar to what Paizo did, since phylactery is apparently not PC anymore due to some obscure religion using this word, they renamed it, thankfully not to Soul Cage, but Spirit Jar... which makes sense that is what the spell used on them is called as well.
- There is a nice Planescape reference under the Mephit entry with a quote from Seanusxanthuszemus, but for some reason they turned him into a Smoke Mephit from a Dust Mephit.

[BBShockwave]

Hey, seems also that Merrow are now back to being basically aquatic Ogres. Gone is the whole cursed Merfolk idea, despite their design being the same as in 2014. Though it is mentioned in their origin that they might be this or that - nobody knows - but they do act and live like Ogres now. I am glad about this change, I always considered them to be Ogres of the seas.

...Now if we could only get art of the Lacedons too, so Wizkids can make minis of them... Or just put webbed feet and hands, fins and kelp on a Ghoul render!

[mvincent]

Genies are all Neutral now. Well, except Marids, they stayed Chaotic Neutral. This really changes not just inner-planar politics but a lot of the lore too, if Efreeti are not cruel but thrustworthy, and Dao are not exploitative traders and slavers. And yes that means Djinn aren't a force of Good, either. Nor is there any mention of enmity between Genies of different planes.

fwiw: the 2025 conversion guide clarifies that:
'Monsters are no longer presented with “any alignment.” Instead, the Neutral alignment is an invitation to give a monster any alignment you prefer.'

I imagine many will prefer historical aligning.

[berk the black]

Genies are all Neutral now. Well, except Marids, they stayed Chaotic Neutral. This really changes not just inner-planar politics but a lot of the lore too, if Efreeti are not cruel but thrustworthy, and Dao are not exploitative traders and slavers. And yes that means Djinn aren't a force of Good, either. Nor is there any mention of enmity between Genies of different planes.

fwiw: the 2025 conversion guide clarifies that:
'Monsters are no longer presented with “any alignment.” Instead, the Neutral alignment is an invitation to give a monster any alignment you prefer.'

I imagine many will prefer historical aligning.

I think I just flat out prefer historical rulesets… I’ve decided against moving to 5th edition, let alone 2024 for any games I run. I’ve given the latest versions a few tries, and met some fantastic DM’s along the way. But I just don’t care for the direction the game has been taken.

[BBShockwave]

In case anyone would like to see a possible 2024 DM's Guide style Tiamat using the new head styles, here is a 3D printed one!
https://imgur.com/gallery/may-2025-mz42 ... #/t/dndart

Genies are all Neutral now. Well, except Marids, they stayed Chaotic Neutral. This really changes not just inner-planar politics but a lot of the lore too, if Efreeti are not cruel but thrustworthy, and Dao are not exploitative traders and slavers. And yes that means Djinn aren't a force of Good, either. Nor is there any mention of enmity between Genies of different planes.

fwiw: the 2025 conversion guide clarifies that:
'Monsters are no longer presented with “any alignment.” Instead, the Neutral alignment is an invitation to give a monster any alignment you prefer.'

I imagine many will prefer historical aligning.

I thought that has been rolled back after Van Richten where it got a lot of negative feedback.
Only Humanoids are Neutral in alignment now, yes - and not even all of those. Mostly stat blocks like Mage, Bandit, Guard are Neutral... but not all. Cultists like Death/Aberrant Cultists are Neutral Evil.
Anything else is set in alignment, because they changed most classic creatures' types. For example Gnolls are Fiends, so they are all Chaotic Evil. Githyanki and Githzerai are Aberrations, so they are Lawful Evil and Lawful Neutral. Aarakocra and Lizardfolk are Elementals, Kobolds are Dragons, all Goblinoids are Fey, so they can have set alignments in the 2025 book. So this way they can get around the "all humanoids are any alignment" rule.
So to me, changing Genies to Neutral certainly means they are officially that now, since other Elementals aren't set in general alignment like that. Mephits are Neutral Evil for example. They also removed any older lore elements, like Efreeti warring with Djinn, or perverting wishes.

[mvincent]

Only Humanoids are Neutral in alignment now
<snip>
So to me, changing Genies to Neutral certainly means they are officially that now, since other Elementals aren't set in general alignment like that.

Merfolk, Galeb Duhr and Xorn are examples of Neutral Elementals. Mimic, Dragon Turtle, Homunculus and Awakened plants are examples of other neutral non-humanoids.

The Efreeti entry also implies that each might have different alignments:
"Many efreet have wicked reputations, as their fickle natures and love for dramatic conflagrations can be destructive. Other efreet delight in fire’s beauty, be it the delicacy of a candle flame or the shared wonder of fireworks"

[BBShockwave]

Yeah, but those creatures used to be Neutral even before they became Elementals. Merfolk have been Neutral since 1E I think.
Mimics and Dragon Turtles were also always of Neutral alignment. What I was referring to was how it is clear that WotC changed certain creatures to other types from Humanoid seemingly only so they can avoid this "all humanoids have to be neutral/any alignment" rule.
Note that there is also Unaligned, which is used for unintelligent beings like animals, oozes, etc.
It is all just rather strange - they left Giants, who are basically just big humanoids, keep their original set alignments. Yet Genies are all Neutral now... Maybe it is meant to represent how they can be good or evil? Cloud Giants used to be either Neutral Good or Neutral Evil 50-50%, now they have a set Neutral alignment too.

Btw, Mimics are weird now, possibly it is a mistake. They are Neutral in alignment as before, and have an intelligence of 5, but they cannot speak now? I thought they could, in previous editions at least.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1978-wh ... c-draconic

New Dragon Delves preview. Says each Dragon will have artwork shown from 2E to today to document the evolution of the design.

[Kikoli]

Btw, Mimics are weird now, possibly it is a mistake. They are Neutral in alignment as before, and have an intelligence of 5, but they cannot speak now? I thought they could, in previous editions at least.

In 5e it was addressed that some mimics learn to speak, but not all of them. Most mimics don't bother.

[BBShockwave]

Ah cool, wish they left that in here as well.

Some more changes:
-Gnolls are still fiends of Yeenoghu like in 2014, don't like it but hey, the art is great so that's OK. Lot more versions of them now, with the Fang of Yeenoghu not even the strongest - the Demoniac that weird green furred mummy-wrapped Gnoll is basically possessed by a Demon and quite strong. They do poison damage. I like that their weapons are usually made out of bones.
-Mind Flayer Arcanists are not just spell casting Illithids...they have arcane tentacle attacks meaning they can actually attack and extract your brains at range! Yikes!
-I like that Ice Devils are now basically Shockwave - cold, logical, emotionless, and tempt people into isolated snobbish intellectualism.
-Invisible Stalkers are Large sized now. Probably a good call, the Quests mini keeps falling on its back on a Medium base, it is so big.
-Half-Dragons are just magical creations now, which I don't care for. They are also mostly Chromatic and created by their lords' life essences as servants who share their personalities. Like, why can't we keep the lore that Dragon can and do have offspring with humanoids? That's why Metallic Half-Dragons were far more common...
-The Grick Alpha is now called Grick Ancient, but it is the same creature.
-Gorgons are Constructs... yeah, weird change. They are created by wizards to guard an area and have weird passcodes that only work as long as the Gorgon can see you. There is also a Brazen Gorgon, a fiery version made by followers of Moloch that cannot petrify, but can trap people inside their ribcages and burn them (kinda like that Pathfinder idol thing...)
-Weirdly, they gave all Golems but the Flesh ranged attacks. The Iron Golem hurls fire for example.
-Jackalwere are now fiends, somehow? And despite being Chaotic Evil still, they act more like Gremlins or trickster Coyote spirits, annoying and misleading people.
-Minotaurs are now specifically called "Minotaurs of Baphomet" probably due to them being playeable in Theros? Implying that only those following Baphomet are evil and Large sized, perhaps. And they have glaives now instead of axes.
-Modrons got a lot stronger now since all types have ranged attacks, and all their weapons do force damage. I like the new gear and clock-themed weapons, fits them better than bows and swords.
-Not sure if the Nightmares did not have their smoke breath in 2014 either, but it is odd to be missing.
-Nobles have a magic-using stronger version who is ridiculously powerful, as their beguiling strike charms you - no saving throw - for a turn. Kinda overpowered...
-Ogres got really weird. Visually the same, but they are now magically created emerging from the earth (and often having a rocky texture) by deities like Takhisis, Erythnul or Vaprak. They are not just slow minded brutes who eat people, they actively hate and destroy art and beauty. The Half-Ogre is gone and replaced by the Ogrillon, who are just people cursed to turn Ogre-like, not the Ogre-Orc hybrids they were. Basically a weaker Ogre. Has no artwork though.
-Oni got a lot more japanese folklore-like, haunting forests and playing drums loud at night or eating people entering a forbidden shrine, instead of having agendas and leading Ogres like in the old days.
-Otyughs are hilarious, and kinda cute despite the grossness. I love that they telepathically try to lure in prey but are really, really bad at it. Here are some examples of their lures:

To Attract Potential Meals, the Otyugh...
1 Disguises its tentacles with garbage puppets.
2 Sings an enticing song in Otyugh.
3 Telepathically transmits a message like “Happy good stuff here!” or “Help now! I’m too delicious?”
4 Telepathically transmits an image of a large gemstone, crooked weapon, or soggy pastry.

[Yack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxU5zyjqICA

Todd is gone and the other two jumped to Critical Role (Daggerheart).

Lanzillo is also gone from WOTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSjZYLjSkUM