Wizkids Miniatures - Quality Control issues and their status

[BBShockwave]

Based on Marco's suggestion, I am putting this sticky topic here, mostly for @Poh so he can see our feedback.
As things will be fixed, I will update this starting topic, or add more cases where problems arise (nudge me if I don't!)

So far, three have been mentioned by Marco but I added some more, not just relating to the minis but packaging. Feel free to mention more.

EDIT:
-Bone Naga (Boneyard)added.

• D&D Icons of the Realms: Arveiaturace, Ancient white Dragon: Due to incorrect paint master copy used in factory, body is unpainted with minimal shading.
  Solution: Replacement will be issued in 2021 June/July (older copies to be returned? to be confirmed)

• D&D Icons of the Realms: Orcus, Demon Lord of Undeath: Areas around the eye socket are over-painted, filling in the sculpted details. Some people observed the flight stand being broken vertically.

• D&D Icons of the Realms: Adult Blue DragonSome people observed too much purple paint used for shading.

• D&D Icons of the Realms/ Pathfinder Battles - General: Packaging of particularly heavy Huge sized minis in boosters - Often these fall out of the bubble insert, causing damage to the other miniatures in the booster, or themselves breaking.
  Suggestion: Return to older booster style bubbles that hold the whole miniature's body, not just the base.

• D&D Icons of the Realms - Sapphire Dragon: Packaging problem - when during shipping package is flipped over, twisty-ties cannot bear the weight of the dragon, causing wing to break off from the dragon body / dragon from base.

• Pathfinder Battles - Darklands Rising - Leng Spider: Due to design of the miniature, too few attachment points on the base and the weight of the Spider causes the miniature to easily break off the base, further compounded by above listed problem with booster bubble inserts not holding Huge minis.

• D&D Icons of the Realms: Boneyard - Bone Naga: Aside from lacking paint (which might be due to it just being a skeleton) almost all Bone Naga arrived with the snake being flattened due to the plastic being not rigid enough and easily bending in heated environment. While the hot/cold water cure fixes this, even afterwards it tends to bend too much. For such long and thin minis, I feel either some support should be placed under it to keep its head raised, or different, sturdied plastic should be used.

[Saxon1974]

Awesome thread thank you. Very helpful when we are thinking of buying something kind of pricey!

[Wizmin]

Should we post specific minis within sets here? If so, the Bone Naga is certainly worth mentioning. All of them were nearly unpainted plastic and all of them were pancaked (though that was a relatively easy fix).

[Kezghan]

Great summary. I have an ancient grey dragon and a sapphire with a snapped off wing. Not ideal.

Thanks all.

[Gopesh1]

Bone Naga - A general problem with many miniatures has been the wash. A lot of the clear minis that got a wash treatment only have the same issues. My polymorph set suffered the same issues.

The wash has been too light of a wash or noncomplimentary to the figure.

I just applied a darker wash to my bone naga and it looks good enough.

[coyotee]

I do not belive the Ancient White was a mistake. Using coloured plastic, leaving it unpainted, and doing minimal dry brush and wash is the same techniqie they used on the Fang and Talon Red Dragon..... which is a very low quality dragon.
If the Ancient White was a mistake, then so was the Red Dragon, and that should be recalled as well.

Wizkids is testing the limits of where they can cut corners and how high they can charge.

Also to be clear, the issue with the Adult Blue isnt that they used too much purple, its that they did a poor , sparse job with the blue over top, and also spread the blue onto the tan spikes.

[Gopesh1]

I do not belive the Ancient White was a mistake. Using coloured plastic, leaving it unpainted, and doing minimal dry brush and wash is the same techniqie they used on the Fang and Talon Red Dragon..... which is a very shi*ty dragon

Wizkids is testing the limits of where they can cut corners and how high they can charge.

Also to be clear, the issue with the Adult Blue isnt that they used too much purple, its that they did a poor , sparse job with the blue over top, and also spread the blue onto the tan spikes.

I dont know if this thread is meant for discussion... so feel free to delete this.

But you are very correct. Even if the color plastic was correct in color, the treatment to it (wash?) was nothing.

It doesnt line up with effort put into other model figure toys for sale.

[BBShockwave]

Should we post specific minis within sets here? If so, the Bone Naga is certainly worth mentioning. All of them were nearly unpainted plastic and all of them were pancaked (though that was a relatively easy fix).

I don't think it is unpainted - mine certainly has black/grey shading, and I don't think it was ever meant to have more paint than that, if you look at the MM artwork. But you are right that it is annoying how it goes flat. Even after 2 hot/cold water cures mine keeps returning to that state. Added!

Great summary. I have an ancient grey dragon and a sapphire with a snapped off wing. Not ideal.

Thanks all.

Sorry to hear it happened to you too. I think the first few giant minis were their "learning curve" and the new "sandwiched" bubble packaging instead of twisty-ties keeps the dragons with no wiggle room and plenty support while traveling. One thing to note for Wizkids if they ever release the Sapphire Dragon again, to update that bubble to the new standard.

I do not belive the Ancient White was a mistake. Using coloured plastic, leaving it unpainted, and doing minimal dry brush and wash is the same techniqie they used on the Fang and Talon Red Dragon..... which is a very low quality dragon.
If the Ancient White was a mistake, then so was the Red Dragon, and that should be recalled as well.

Wizkids is testing the limits of where they can cut corners and how high they can charge.

Also to be clear, the issue with the Adult Blue isnt that they used too much purple, its that they did a poor , sparse job with the blue over top, and also spread the blue onto the tan spikes.

Hmm, I noticed that in previews the Young Red Dragon was somehow brighter than others of its kind, but I don't have the set yet ('thanks' to Tritex somehow forgetting my order) so I cannot comment. You mean the black wash was missed somehow? I feel still you are being too unkind towards Wizkids to assume this was done with malicious intent, surely you don't think they are saving money by leaving out some paint steps on a Rare that's only 1 per case? Sending replacement Arveitaturace costs them a lot, so I am fully ready to believe the explanation with the misplaced paint master by PoH.
Mostly 'cause I have seen such widely-copied factory errors myself with Transformers... where paint steps present on the CGI renders were missed by the factory by mistake. Or in one case, some prankster designer putting a MCGA (yes, MAGA but with Cybertron) acronym on one of Jazz's sticker sheets...

[coyotee]

I do not belive the Ancient White was a mistake. Using coloured plastic, leaving it unpainted, and doing minimal dry brush and wash is the same techniqie they used on the Fang and Talon Red Dragon..... which is a very low quality dragon.
If the Ancient White was a mistake, then so was the Red Dragon, and that should be recalled as well.

Hmm, I noticed that in previews the Young Red Dragon was somehow brighter than others of its kind, but I don't have the set yet ('thanks' to Tritex somehow forgetting my order) so I cannot comment. You mean the black wash was missed somehow? I feel still you are being too unkind towards Wizkids to assume this was done with malicious intent, surely you don't think they are saving money by leaving out some paint steps on a Rare that's only 1 per case? Sending replacement Arveitaturace costs them a lot, so I am fully ready to believe the explanation with the misplaced paint master by PoH.
Mostly 'cause I have seen such widely-copied factory errors myself with Transformers... where paint steps present on the CGI renders were missed by the factory by mistake. Or in one case, some prankster designer putting a MCGA (yes, MAGA but with Cybertron) acronym on one of Jazz's sticker sheets...

No, Arveiraturace and the F&T Red Dragon both got a wash, but because it was just a wash over coloured plastic, It looks really cheap, and even pealed off in some cases. They were only painted on the important bits, and a wash layer over the body. And if they did get a dry brush, it was super minimal.

Malicious is the wrong word. They aren’t trying to hurt us, they are just seeing where they can save money. They are doing the same business tactic as everyone else; making products that last just long enough to meet the need, and are only as good as it needs to be to keep people buying.
Having some really poor minis is probably a smart business move because it gives people another reason to buy future sets when a better version comes out. Feeds the addiction

Yes, I definitely think wizkids is saving money by doing fewer paint steps, even on a rare red dragon. They aren't recalling the F&T Red Dragon for having just coloured red plastic and wash, which tell me it wasn't a mistake.
I guess we will know for sure if they do it again (spoiler...they have done it a few times)

Nov 2020 – Fang and Talons Red Dragon released with coloured plastic and wash.
Jan 2021 – Arvieraturace released with same technique, and it gets called a mistake after people are vocal.

It is not a mistake when they have already approved and done it previously. They have tested the “coloured plastic and wash” technique and quality on us, and found out what and where they can get away with. You can get away with a few poor minis in a set because people will still buy for the good ones. But when a solo premium has issues, it has to be fixed or it hurts sales.

The "coloured plastic and wash layer" didnt work on a gargantuan white dragon, but no one really complained about the F&T huge Red Dragon so I expect to see more of it in the future on the smaller minis. Look and the Snowbound Cambion mini; the wings look like they are done the same way.

[Imbalance]

Coyotee is right, and nowhere is the cheap paint job more prevalent than on Wizkids' terrain. After playing with various builds using WarLock Tiles and now The Tower, I have to wash my hands, as I was literally wearing their "shading" effect - it smudges onto my fingertips that easily. I'm not even sure it's a paint app or if the factory is just that dirty.

[Aerodus]

Coyotee is right, and nowhere is the cheap paint job more prevalent than on Wizkids' terrain. After playing with various builds using WarLock Tiles and now The Tower, I have to wash my hands, as I was literally wearing their "shading" effect - it smudges onto my fingertips that easily. I'm not even sure it's a paint app or if the factory is just that dirty.

Not sure if this translates to mass-produced minis, but if I were to paint something like that by hand, I'd know what the problem was: paint without primer isn't going to stick, and a wash is still paint. If I tried to paint an untreated piece of plastic, I'd be lucky if I got stuff to stay where I wanted it, let alone account for long-term handling.

[BBShockwave]

In some positive feedback, can I say that maybe from now on, ALL spears and swords should be made of the material that was used for the jumping Goblin's spear in the Goblin warband? Not only does it stay straight, I cannot even make it physically bend (or at least it does not feel like I could without breaking). To a lesser extent, while the spear on my PFB Darklands Rising Mammoth Rider was bent, after using the hot/cold water cure, it is now incredibly sturdy and stays straightened.

I do not belive the Ancient White was a mistake. Using coloured plastic, leaving it unpainted, and doing minimal dry brush and wash is the same techniqie they used on the Fang and Talon Red Dragon..... which is a very low quality dragon.
If the Ancient White was a mistake, then so was the Red Dragon, and that should be recalled as well.

Hmm, I noticed that in previews the Young Red Dragon was somehow brighter than others of its kind, but I don't have the set yet ('thanks' to Tritex somehow forgetting my order) so I cannot comment. You mean the black wash was missed somehow? I feel still you are being too unkind towards Wizkids to assume this was done with malicious intent, surely you don't think they are saving money by leaving out some paint steps on a Rare that's only 1 per case? Sending replacement Arveitaturace costs them a lot, so I am fully ready to believe the explanation with the misplaced paint master by PoH.
Mostly 'cause I have seen such widely-copied factory errors myself with Transformers... where paint steps present on the CGI renders were missed by the factory by mistake. Or in one case, some prankster designer putting a MCGA (yes, MAGA but with Cybertron) acronym on one of Jazz's sticker sheets...

No, Arveiraturace and the F&T Red Dragon both got a wash, but because it was just a wash over coloured plastic, It looks really cheap, and even pealed off in some cases. They were only painted on the important bits, and a wash layer over the body. And if they did get a dry brush, it was super minimal.

Malicious is the wrong word. They aren’t trying to hurt us, they are just seeing where they can save money. They are doing the same business tactic as everyone else; making products that last just long enough to meet the need, and are only as good as it needs to be to keep people buying.
Having some really poor minis is probably a smart business move because it gives people another reason to buy future sets when a better version comes out. Feeds the addiction

Yes, I definitely think wizkids is saving money by doing fewer paint steps, even on a rare red dragon. They aren't recalling the F&T Red Dragon for having just coloured red plastic and wash, which tell me it wasn't a mistake.
I guess we will know for sure if they do it again (spoiler...they have done it a few times)

Nov 2020 – Fang and Talons Red Dragon released with coloured plastic and wash.
Jan 2021 – Arvieraturace released with same technique, and it gets called a mistake after people are vocal.

It is not a mistake when they have already approved and done it previously. They have tested the “coloured plastic and wash” technique and quality on us, and found out what and where they can get away with. You can get away with a few poor minis in a set because people will still buy for the good ones. But when a solo premium has issues, it has to be fixed or it hurts sales.

The "coloured plastic and wash layer" didnt work on a gargantuan white dragon, but no one really complained about the F&T huge Red Dragon so I expect to see more of it in the future on the smaller minis. Look and the Snowbound Cambion mini; the wings look like they are done the same way.

Young Red Dragon.JPG (1.13 MiB) Viewed 8773 times

I had to check, and sorry... how is this "just a wash"? It clearly has beige painted underbelly, separately painted horns, claws, eyes, etc. Last I checked a "wash" is some translucent paint (usually black) applied OVER the mini to bring out details. If anything, the wash IS missing from this Dragon.
And I still gotta disagree. There is no way they painted the Blue Dragon so expertly and then used less paint steps for the Red - how is that saving them money? If they wanted to save money they would have done it for the Uncommons of which there are a LOT more manufactured of, and which have often just as many paint steps, if not more. I mean pretty sure the Ogre Zombie has more paint steps than this Young Red Dragon for example.
I also don't see your logic in how people would be incentivised to buy a mini again if the last one was poor. I mean there were some stinkers in the early sets (Green Hag) and they are now, 6 years later, making better versions of them, but otherwise the general consensus is pretty much that quality has improved a lot since the early sets, and they are mostly doing repeats of older, not perfect minis (or those at a too high rarity point).
It's gotta be another paint master mistake where an unfinished sample was used for the paint master. I bet the same is true of the Mindwitness. Maybe PoH can chime in and let us know?

[coyotee]

No, Arveiraturace and the F&T Red Dragon both got a wash, but because it was just a wash over coloured plastic, It looks really cheap, and even pealed off in some cases. They were only painted on the important bits, and a wash layer over the body. And if they did get a dry brush, it was super minimal.

Young Red Dragon.JPG
I had to check, and sorry... how is this "just a wash"? It clearly has beige painted underbelly, separately painted horns, claws, eyes, etc. Last I checked a "wash" is some translucent paint (usually black) applied OVER the mini to bring out details. If anything, the wash IS missing from this Dragon.
And I still gotta disagree. There is no way they painted the Blue Dragon so expertly and then used less paint steps for the Red - how is that saving them money? If they wanted to save money they would have done it for the Uncommons of which there are a LOT more manufactured of, and which have often just as many paint steps, if not more. I mean pretty sure the Ogre Zombie has more paint steps than this Young Red Dragon for example.
I also don't see your logic in how people would be incentivised to buy a mini again if the last one was poor. I mean there were some stinkers in the early sets (Green Hag) and they are now, 6 years later, making better versions of them, but otherwise the general consensus is pretty much that quality has improved a lot since the early sets, and they are mostly doing repeats of older, not perfect minis (or those at a too high rarity point).
It's gotta be another paint master mistake where an unfinished sample was used for the paint master. I bet the same is true of the Mindwitness. Maybe PoH can chime in and let us know?

That not what i said.. I said it was just a wash over the coloured plastic, with some paint on the important bits. That is a red plastic dragon, 1 layer of paint for the scales and horns, quick dots for eyes, and a black wash. Other minis have multiple paint layers, dry brush, and wash.
The tan scale layer is heavily applied to cover up the red plastic, and the wash doesnt spread or settle nicely because it is just plastic with no paint primer, and looks dirty and smudged.
It looks and feels like a cheap dollar store toy; apart from the fire ball.


By using less paint steps, it is cheaper to make. If they had of painted the young red as nicely as the young blue in this set it would have cost more to have the extra paint layers. There really isn't an argument to this. The young red dragon was made cheaper and of lower quality.
You said it yourself that the young blue in this set is done expertly. When side by side with the young blue dragon, the red doesnt event look like it is from the same product line at all. Even the sculpt is lower quality and doesnt seem to match / fit in.

You dont see the incentive to buy a new mini when it is better than the one you have? Seems pretty obvious to me. I pretty much ONLY buy minis to get stuff better than I have.
If the first line of minis had every mini 100% awesome and lasted forever, they would be out of business. It would be too expensive to make, and people wouldn't need to buy as much. This is how our economy work; people have to keep buying, so businesses have to give them a reason to.

When you say "It's gotta be another paint master mistake where an unfinished sample was used for the paint master." are you still talking about the F&T Young Red Dragon ?
If it is a mistake, then offer replacements and dont do it again. But they ARE doing it again. Premimum minis and sets keep doing this, so no it is not a mistake. If it was a mistake the problem would have solved itself, because minis were never meant to be made that way, and we wouldnt have seen it again in future minis.

[berk the black]

I totally agree that Wizkids is attempting to reduce painting costs on minis. In some cases it is fine, like with anything that should look shiny plastic like even after painted, such as oozes. Even the sapphire dragon looks pretty good, it looks a lot like a gem in its plastic birthday suit. But Arveiaturace, Red Dragon the Bone Naga are all good examples of taking it to far. The rule of thumb should be if the mini looks like it was made out of plastic instead of what it should look like, then it needs more paint.

I will say that we say with the Legendary Adventures Boar Demon (Nalfeshnee) we got two versions, one where the skin was painted and one where it was not. I didn’t feel the unpainted version was too bad, although to call it unpainted is an injustice. It still had many paint steps other than the bare skin.

[Kezghan]

Sorry to hear it happened to you too. I think the first few giant minis were their "learning curve" and the new "sandwiched" bubble packaging instead of twisty-ties keeps the dragons with no wiggle room and plenty support while traveling. One thing to note for Wizkids if they ever release the Sapphire Dragon again, to update that bubble to the new standard.

Thanks BB. Yeah I was wasn’t too happy when the wing seemed to randomly snap off. I’ve since glued it once and had it happen again. Going to have to get more heavy duty for the next attempt.